Posts by cap1

    Hard to argue with that. A friend of yours had the ATF try to copy his shit? That is exactly the kind of evidence you'll be able to provide. This is just funny. I won't even get into discussing the logistics of sending agents to out-of-home FFL holders to "try to copy their shit" and how long it would take to cover all of them "and their shit".

    I'm done using logic over anecdotes. If you're not willing to think past fear, it's not worth discussing.

    you seem hellbent on convincing everyone that this is hard. it is not. it is easily done when given the time. and time is all they have.

    i'm not sure about other states, but they're also trying to run home based ffl's out here in nj. and what happens when a ffl closes their doors for any reason? they must hand over all of their work to the batf.

    i see this a lot from off duty local police. watched one mag-dump into the floor. at 10 yards.

    Well according to Minipad that's just an isolated incident and no one has anything to worry about.

    And why do you keep going back to they have to do 40 million?

    i don't keep going there....that's the other dude. and considering they've been doing for at LEAST 4 years, they've probably just about finished.

    They have to do 40 million no matter what. That is a conservative estimate too. I did not state how long it would take. I did not say "all at one time". I simply asked you to take the time to figure out how long it would take. You have not. You will not. If you do, you will realize how silly your argument is. Really, think about how long it takes to take something out of a binder and feed it into something else then return it to the binder and give it back.

    You cite reports of "copying" binders all you want. I guarantee they are isolated incidents tied to investigations because, once again, the math indicates they would not have nearly the resources to pull this off and keep it quiet.

    friend of mine used to be a home based ffl. the atf came in, and tried to copy his shit.

    We don't get to choose our genetics. We do get to do the very best we can and rise above any so called impediment.

    well.....normal folk like us do. the rest just try to make the rest of us pay for their "impediment"

    someone had told me that the er that trump was heading to visit had protesters(rioters?) waiting for him fucking selfish pricks.

    Or that their lists have to be complete.

    And Minipad acts like they would have to do 40 million at one time. The article was from 2013 they were doing it then, do you think they stopped?

    and how long before they got caught were they really doing it?

    Last year, Gun Owners of America warned that the "ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) is going from dealer to dealer, copying the information on these forms (4473), and feeding it into a database." We've seen, in recent weeks, how this unconstitutional agency is illegally terrorizing small business owners, such as Ares Armor, and raiding their establishments to gather information on their customers, in what many people believe is part of the plan to create a national gun registry database. Now comes another story out of Maine.

    According to Phil Chabot, owner of Pac N Arms, the ATF also used illegal tactics to attempt to scan information on his customers as well.


    The real point is the forms for the last 20 years are there. They just have to go to each place they're stored, collect all of them, physically enter them into a database and then correlate them with nobody finding out because this would be a major violation of privacy and government over-reach.

    I don't think you really have any idea what you're talking about in regards to scale or scope or even feasibility. The only real way for it to work is backwards tracing after the fact. Combine that with the very simple fact that having a medical marijuana card does not prove use and you'll find that this is not something the feds are going to do. It is simply someone over-reacting to something they really haven't thought through.

    there have been multiple reports of the batf illegally copying ffl's binders, and/or 4473's.

    One thing is certain...


    And it was caused by those that would deny it. I hope you all like that blood on your hands.

    no. it was trump and the russianz colluding.

    By contrast, HIPAA permits1 the police to use an administrative subpoena or other written request with no court involvement, as long as police include a written statement that the information they want is relevant, material, and limited in scope, and that de-identified information is insufficient.

    Law enforcement can also bypass judicial and administrative processes under HIPAA to get access to medical records. For example, the police may request medical information directly to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive, witness, or missing person; when a crime has been committed at a health care facility; or when there is a medical emergency involved in a crime. In general, these are permissive disclosures—the covered entity or business associate may refuse.

    The HIPAA Privacy Rule broadly defines law enforcement as "any government official at any level of government authorized to either investigate or prosecute a violation of the law."

    Under HIPAA, medical information can be disclosed to law enforcement officials without an individual’s permission in a number of ways. Disclosures for law enforcement purposes apply not only to doctors or hospitals, but also to health plans, pharmacies, health care clearinghouses, and medical research labs. That's because under the HITECH Act, as implemented by the HIPAA Omnibus Rule, both a "covered entity" and any business associate (BA) are directly subject to these law enforcement access rules.

    Congress passed HIPAA in 1996 with a promise that it would clamp down on waste, fraud and abuse in the health care industry and safeguard patient privacy. But HIPAA allows federal bureaucrats to get patient records merely by issuing administrative subpoenas, or civil investigative demands.

    These bureaucratic edicts bypass the Fourth Amendment’s requirement that a judge must give prior approval before government can search or take an individual’s property. Officials with the Department of Health and Human Services’ (HHS) Office of Inspector General and the Department of Justice (DOJ) thus have access to any records they believe to be “relevant” in cases of alleged health care fraud.

    “The subpoenas are so broad that they almost always will include patient records,” David Douglass, a partner at Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton law firm which represents health care providers also told TheDCNF.

    No, I am completely right. The 4473 is not given to the feds unless they specifically request one. It is not in the hand of the government, but rather the retailers and brokers. Them I have much more faith in.

    As for the rest of what you said, you may want to re-read my original post on the topic again. It is illegal to lie on the 4473. That is clear. It always has been. The main dispute comes over the fed correlating them to medical marijuana usage which you have shown zero data for. Even the article doesn't mention it. It has simply been fabricated based on... well I have no idea.

    i feel that if the antis get on them hard enough, they'll do just that.

    i know the 4473's not in govt hands. by law it must be handed over upon request, along with their binders, which also contain all the information. it's more of a "back door" registration...but if the information's stored somewhere and available to any govt agency, it's registered.

    while everyone thinks our firearms aren't registered...they are....sorta......but not really.

    thing is, as stated above, when you buy a firearm from the ffl, you fill out the 4473. this contains information on the weapon you're purchasing. while that specific information doesn't go to the nics check, it is still on record with the ffl.'re all saying that that's not registration, because the govt can't see it. but it is....the batf can come to the ffl any time, and said ffl must present to them their binders(which contain all the info on the firearm you purchased) upon request. so....they are registered. just that it's not the govt agency doing it. they're having the ffl's do it for them, and then if they need/want info on anything/anyone, they go there and get it.