Posts by Holden

    Would Lincoln have had support for a war if he hadn't provoked the South into firing first?

    By sending a letter, he "provoked" the south into firing on a fort that was built on a sand bar that the State of South Carolina ceded to the Union in 1805 along with Ft Moultrie and a couple others. In 1836, South Carolina officially ceded all "right, title and, claim" to the site of Fort Sumter to the United States, as the construction of the fort was done on federal dollars and with 70 tons of New England stone for it's foundation stone..

    When SC attempted independence, she thought that the forts she had given the Union and the one the Union built and paid for were somehow hers.

    Not very gentlemanly of those southern gentlemen of the day to try and steal something that they willingly gave away previously or that someone else built and paid for..

    Lincoln told the Governor of SC that a civilian ship carrying food, water, fodder would be sent south and a week later, the south committed the first act of it's suicide.

    Why did that happen? Because we kicked the Crown's ass. The Confederacy lost their fight but that doesn't mean they didn't have the right to leave in the first place. In hindsight, losing was a foregone conclusion for the Confederacy before the first shots were ever fired at Ft Sumter.

    And who fired the first shots? The rebs. They even called themselves rebs.

    Franklin and Jefferson knew they were committing treason if they lost the war, because if they lost they were still subjects of the crown. They knew they were committing rebellion. So did the Confederacy.

    They had their own government and that is good enough.

    "Recognizing" a government is a relatively new phenomenon in human history and really has no bearing on this discussion. Why did the Confederacy (of the 13 Colonies for that matter) need anyone else's permission to exist and govern themselves as they saw fit? Since you brought it up, if memory serves, France and England (and others) most likely would have recognized the Confederacy if not for the existence of slavery.

    Biafra had it's own government... Find that on a map.

    France and England would have recognized the CSA but didn't.

    And no treaty existed between the USA and the CSA. That's the biggy.

    A treaty exists between the Crown and the USA. We got Britain to agree to leave us be.

    So in my little town, word went out on Facebook that busses of 'protesters' were coming to town.

    500 or so local rednecks took their guns and chairs and went downtown.

    This morning, the Klamath County Sheriff posted this


    “This morning the sun has come up and with the dawn of a new day we look at downtown Klamath Falls and see no remnants of last night’s activities. Yesterday many of our friends and neighbors, as well as out of town “guests”, came out to express various points of view and exercise the freedoms that make our country the greatest in the world. While there were times last night when words got heated and tensions rose there was largely peaceful expression in Klamath Falls. I could not be more proud of our citizens and our brave law enforcement officers who helped keep the peace last night.”

    We gave ourselves consent and forced King Dweebie to the peace talks via the battlefield. I wouldn't call that getting his consent, more like we beat his armies in the field so he grudgingly said "ok you can go" after we'd already gone.

    King George gave his consent by conceding.

    "Britain acknowledges the United States (New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia[15]) to be free, sovereign, and independent states, and that the British Crown and all heirs and successors relinquish claims to the Government, property, and territorial rights of the same, and every part thereof,"

    The Confederacy never got to that level, never being recognized by the USA or by any foreign power, therefore they never were an independent country.

    I'd say his lawyer sucked

    USPS Regulations:

    "Curbside mailbox posts should be buried less than 24 inches deep and made from wood no larger than 4 inches high by 4 inches wide. Steel or aluminum pipes with a 2-inch diameter are also acceptable."

    If you look at the American revolution, we got consent with the Treaty of Paris.

    If you look at Canada, it was an act of the UK Parliament in 1982.

    It really doesn't matter how the consent was achieved, through violence or any other means, it is just that consent was given.

    Taiwan and the 2 Koreas might be the closest examples, but the Koreas are still technically at war. The PRC considers Taiwan a breakaway province and there might still be some violence regarding that issue.

    True independence comes from a final agreement, however achieved, not just a proclamation. A breakaway's proclamation only starts the process.

    There's a simple way to get it right. Drop "my neighbor" and see if it works.

    "Me just took a ride to McDonalds and got large mocha fraps." or "I just took a ride to McDonalds and got large mocha fraps."

    Which one sounds right?

    This is correct, except the most egregious faux pax is "ride to McDonalds and got mocha fraps"

    Mocha fraps? Jeesus...