Posts by SWtarget

    Razer, thanks for sharing. I can see how if one already believes in Trinity that those would be supportive of that belief. But if you aren't already starting there, I'm very hard pressed to see how these are indicating they are one being. Just one example, but basically similar in all of them:

    4. Luke 3:22

    “And the Holy Spirit descended upon Him [Jesus] in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My [the Father’s] beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

    If the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus, it clearly must be separate from Jesus.

    If Jesus is God, who is speaking out of heaven? Someone who is not Jesus.

    A human Father and a Son are different people, are they not? Why would the terms be used any differently when relating to the spiritual realm?

    So to me, the viewpoint that these scriptures refer to three different "people" appears just as valid. When coupled with other examples, a few of which I've already provided, in my view we're back to the A vs. B logical argument, and "B" seems more correct.

    Sidenote, the way Holy Spirit is talked about often makes it sound more like a force rather than a personality. "Spirit of God" as God's power, if you will. Also consider that unlike the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit appears to have no proper name (Father and Son being Jehovah and Jesus).

    I understand you may not agree. But I believe it is healthy for one to examine his spiritual health from time to time.

    2 Corinthians 13:5a "Keep testing whether you are in the faith; keep proving what you yourselves are."

    Triune, not difficult to grasp.

    Apparently it is for some.

    Trinity as a doctrine was introduced in the third century. This is a historic fact. There is neither Biblical nor scholarly evidence that it was at all considered by the first century Christians, and certainly wasn't a doctrine taught by the apostles who knew Jesus.

    Bible verses used by those who promote Trinity do not stand up to close scrutiny when they are placed in their total context. John 1:1 is probably the most cited, but as I pointed out, does not stand up to simple logic. There are two possible interpretations of the use of θεὸς in the text: A: intended to mean God=The Word (Jesus) or B: The Word is being described as being Godlike / Divine in nature, but a separate being. Since both cannot be true, what do other scriptures indicate. As I pointed out, they indicate God and Jesus are separate. Hence the "B" interpretation is the one that should be accepted.

    If God and Jesus are separate, there is no "Triune God". There is one God, Jehovah the Father. Jesus is his Son, but not co-equal. Exalted in status, absolutely, but not co-equal.

    Phillipians 2:5-6:

    "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God"

    But don't take my word for it. I encourage everyone who has a genuine interest to read the Bible and decide for themselves what is logical and true. Happy to continue the conversation with anyone interested.

    /endhijack #2 (or is it #3?)

    Jesus said plainly that he and the father are one. And of course there is John 1:1.

    ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

    τὸν θεόν



    "The God" with the definite article is, as far as I know, universally accepted to be referring to God, and is used in the place of God's personal name (Jehovah or Yahweh, depending on whether you would like to call the son Jesus or Yahshua. יהוה in Hebrew).

    "God" without the definite article can be interpreted in several ways, including as a descriptor or title. It may or may not refer to "The God" himself. So One possible interpretation of the last phrase is that the "Word" was "Like God" or "Godlike".

    Also of note, the word was "pros" "The God", or toward God. This implies proximity, but separate individuals, helping to clarify "God" in the last phrase being descriptive.

    "But SWTarget, you're sure parsing words"

    Not really. The Bible explains itself when taken in full context, which is why I suggested reviewing John 17:21-23 (mind you, same book, same writer, so there is no disagreement between opinions of different Bible writers)

    So, Jesus is praying (if he is God in Human form, who is he praying to?)

    " so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me."

    So if being in union with his father means they are the same person, then Jesus praying that his apostles be in union with them would make not a Trinitarian God, but a God of multitudes. He would be praying that his apostles somehow literally meld into one being. This makes no logical sense.

    Jesus says he received glory from God. If he is God, he doesn't receive it, but has it inherently. Jesus says the Father loves him. While everyone should love themselves, he is clearly not talking about loving himself, but being loved by another personage.

    Or how about John (same writer again) 14:28:

    "You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am."

    If Jesus and God are one person, then logically one cannot be greater than the other. But Jesus says it plainly.

    How about John (same writer!!) 20:17:

    Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

    Jesus again clearly refers to returning to someone, not that he is that person. He furthermore refers to his apostles as his "brothers." So while the apostles may share a future princely reward in a heavenly kingdom, and thus share a measure of equality with Jesus, they certainly do not and are not equal to God himself.

    Many other examples to point to that Jesus and God are clearly separate individuals, but it's late and I'm going to bed. I invite you to reflect on the full context. And don't misunderstand . . . recognizing Jesus' role as Messiah is clearly crucial to gaining everlasting life (John 17:3), so in no way is Jesus diminished by recognizing his status as being separate from God.

    Not sure how you can quote this verse from Mathew where Jesus is quite obviously a person separate from his father . . . and then follow it up later with "God . . . becoming Human."

    Look, if it were enough for us just to try to do right then God would not have subjected himself to becoming human, enduring temptation, and suffering a brutal murder. I wish it hadn't been necessary. Accept or reject this, I wouldn't deny you the choice if I could. Ignorance of this though is not your option.

    I suggest re-reading John 17:21-23 and ponder over what kind of Unity Jesus is praying to God about. He certainly isn't saying he and his Father are the same person.


    did the Rednecks do anything illegal when they were chasing him? Is chasing somebody 2 question them or possibly make a citizen's arrest illegal?

    Yes. What they did is the very definition of assault in a legal sense. Brandishing a weapon at someone is assault with a lethal weapon. The weapon does not have to be used "successfully" for it to be defined as an assault -- the mere threat of it's use constitutes the crime.

    But I look out at those stars in the Milky Way, and I know that every one of them is a solar system that's far beyond anything I can comprehend. And they're like grains of sand, just in our own galaxy. Galaxies like the Milky Way are as numerous as grains of sand. Compared to the universe, we're not even bacteria. And you wanna tell me that you can contain God in one particular book written and selected by men?

    Isaiah 40:26:

    Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.
    Who has created these things?
    It is the One who brings out their army by number;

    He calls them all by name.
    Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power, Not one of them is missing

    I was about to make a comment about the difficulty I've had "losing" stuff in the back of the few deep cabinets we have . . . then I saw what you did with the pull-out drawers. Fantastic solution.

    Covid has already killed more Americans than the Spanish Flu did, so the vaccine must be pure poison to catch up to do to that number...

    Normally, you are very careful about these things, but in this case, you are ignoring important context.…1918-pandemic-history.htm

    "It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population became infected with this virus. The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States. Mortality was high in people younger than 5 years old, 20-40 years old, and 65 years and older. The high mortality in healthy people, including those in the 20-40 year age group, was a unique feature of this pandemic."

    500 Million infected worldwide, 1/3 population infected, 50 Million deaths, 1 in 10 died.

    In the US, about 100 Million population in 1918, 675,000 deaths during the course of the pandemic, mostly the young. Remember, those 65 and older were a relatively small % of the population then.

    As of today, 219M covid infections worldwide about 3% of the world's population, 4.6M deaths. About 1 in 47 died.

    The US population is 330M or so. So as a portion of the population, Covid deaths are 1/3 the size of the Spanish Flu. Furthermore, the deaths have been mostly those over 65 years of age, with very few young.

    Not minimizing the seriousness of Covid, but at this point there really is no comparing this thing to what the Spanish Flu did.

    Trumps "big lie" doesn't seem any different to me than Billary's claim that Trump was illegitimate because of Zee Russkies, or those that said Kenyan Obama wasn't even eligible, or Gore et. al. claiming Bush didn't really win Florida in 2000. It's been standard procedure for 20 years before Trump had anything to do with it.

    The "big lie" is that it is anything new.

    There are reports that say the Chinks are hording sea containers to drive up shipping cost for everyone besides themselves.

    You have this exactly backwards. All the empty containers are stacked up in the US. The problem is that when the US economy started opening up, there was a surge of imports and without a similar surge in exports. Ports simply got backed up. The railheads in Chicago are backed up . . . they shut down rail traffic between LA and Chicago to try to relieve the pressure. There's lines of container ships off Long beach.…k-california-ports-2021-8

    Ships sit off the coast of Seal Beach, CA, on Tuesday, January 26, 2021. Cargo ships enduring one of the worst U.S. port bottlenecks in more than a decade faced down another obstacle as they waited to offload near the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach

    We had 2 pallets sitting in a container in Tacoma for three months waiting to be unloaded. List goes on and on.

    So, empty containers are stacking up HERE and aren't getting loaded on return ships to SE Asia because the ports are trying to get everything UNloaded.

    More domestic production of the goods everyone wants would certainly help, but that ship sailed long ago (no pun intended). There may be some enterprising folks out there trying to start up, but that takes time. In the meantime, we will have shortages due to shipping delays, more expensive shipments because of lack of containers in exporting countries, and higher rates as shipping companies need to build the delays into their pricing structure. We've heard the spot market has gone from $3-5K for a 20' container to $20K to get from SE Asia to the West Coast. More scarcity, higher transit costs, all means higher prices we've already been experiencing to some degree already. We're likely to experience even more to come.

    It's a fantastic story Lazs, and I hope she enjoys what she does. As I've gotten older and hopefully a small amount wiser, all those things I was told to believe as a child seem so off base. Something just as basic as how you define "success." Back then it was (and still is now to a large degree) about what kind of income you could get and how impressed people would be when you could tell them what you did or what title you had in your company.

    Of what value is any of that if you end up overstressed and miserable?

    And what is overstressed and miserable to one person might be fun and exciting to someone else. Each should find their own and not be pressured into one path or another.

    If it keeps food on the table and a roof over the head, and you aren't miserable doing it, and you don't feel so bad that you make other people around you miserable as well, that's good enough. If you are actually happy with what you are doing, and can bring joy to those around you, that's a fantastic success story.