CZ 52...

  • They are a 7.62x25 round. Soviet.. think the soviet submachine guns in WW2 The 52 is relatively large... It is also a roller lock mechanism like HK rifles.. very robust. all steel. The ammo will defeat most body armor and helmets. Like... 86 grain bullet at 1700 fps. easy to field strip... accurate... LOUD 8 round single action mag. I have shot em before. but out shooting a buddy had a couple.. I got one. in the old days... you could get one for $125 and ammo was like $150 per thousand rounds. Now decent guns are $400... the ammo is $300 or more per thousand. Still a bargain... I do not have even one round for the gun LOL... Well worn gray parkerized made in 1954...


    Something fun to take out now and then.... a thousand rounds is probly a lifetime worth of ammo but who knows?


    lazs


    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • Didn't some company over there score thousands of surplus ones in big crates over there recently. I recall watching a vid of them opening crates to see what they got and they had thousands of these.

    You can identify an unknown force by firing one shot and judging the response.

    - If the unknowns respond with precise, regimented rifle fire, they are British.

    - If they respond with heavy machinegun fire, they are German.

    - If nothing happens for a few minutes, then your whole position gets leveled by artillery, they are American.

    - If they surrender, they're French.

    :littlered

  • It's a good military pistol/SMG round, but no... It won't penetrate any modern military body armor. It's really not much better than 9mm in that regard. Maybe like a concealable level IIa vest... Level IIIa will stop it for sure.

    “The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.” -- Ayn Rand

  • Yes I meant that it would defeat threat level 2 and sometimes 3 body armor. and a kevlar helmet. The 9mm is not even close.


    The Tokerev actually uses a slightly less potent round/loading and the SMG a slightly nastier one. Guys were hurting their tok's with the surplus ammo that was really made for SMG and CZ 52's Stuff meant for the Toks should run around 1400-1450 The SMG stuff runs around 1600 or 1700 out of the CZ.... the 52 has a roller locking system just like an HK rifle and it is hell for robust.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • I don't know oh corpulent one. I remember when the states were flooded with the things and they sold for a little more than $100 They run $300 now for a crappy one and a lot more for really nice ones. The ammo is what is drying up tho. Used to be able to buy the 1200 round spam cans for like $60 Now it is over $300


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • Military kevlar helmets are mostly IIIa. Our kevlar helmets were a bit heavier than that back in the '90s and would stop a 7.62x39 Russian at 100 meters or further away. Of course the impact alone could still kill you and you certainly wouldn't look the same afterwards even if you survived. It was the dawn of kevlar armor and everyone kinda overdid it at first. We were wobbeling around like knights of old wearing 30-40 lbs of armor. I think NATO has pretty much standardized on IIIa for helmets now. So up to .44 magnum and the like. Might stop a 5.45 or 5.56 at medium to long range if you're lucky. Like 200+ meters.


    9 mm will go through the exact same parts of a soldier the 7.62x25 mm will... I.e. the unprotected parts.

    “The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.” -- Ayn Rand

  • Fair enough curly. But 400-500 fps difference between the soviet round and 9mm.......is extremely significant.


    I dealt with cops and the trainer told me once that the old wobbly stuff you are talking about.. his SWAT team wore.. it would stop a .308 at 100 yards but your flexabilty was... LOL.. 'impaired' Some meth head (not me) with a 6" 44 mag got behind one of his guys and shot him four times in the back. It caused semi permanent paralyzation.. believe me.. not something you want.


    I have seen threat level three (police) vests take multiple 9mm.. often almost on top of each other and no real penetration... I blew holes through em with a 44 mag revolver (old vest over wood stand) this is with 245 grain cast lead slug at 1300 fps No 9mm did the job. Only one .357 mag load did the job as I recall... that was 158 grain cast load at 1400 fps.


    But yes... hit anyone in the right spot and it matters not if it is a 25 auto or a 44 mag...


    To me? I have come to accept the 9mm... it is a great intermediate round. Feeds well.. Low recoil.. I know it will fail a lot of the time. Unless I am hunting? I do not give a shit. But... 18 rounds? I am sure at least one will be where I aimed it and do the job. as.............protection... will they be able to shoot back? sure.. most of the time.


    The other thing is that I find the term "over penetration" to be nonsense. NOTHING overpenetrates and... .well just about anything does. If it exits? it penetrated enough.. if it did not? it is too weak.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • Sooo 'as always' I tend to go to Paul and the 'meat target' and the chrono. As you can see the soviet stuff varies wildly in velocity... Handloaders are getting right at 1700 fps from the round... I may try that.


    My VERY limited hunting and my friends more extensive hunting shows that over penetration is a myth. more wounded game happen from under penetration. Over penetrate? LOL.. it is just insurance.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)