• Finally... FINALLY the new "H&K P7/13" is here. The Laugo Alien. Finally a new pistol using a better system than the ubiquitous Browning action. A proper modern pistol for the pistol-optics-era. Now if Vasquez had one of these rather than that POS Smith & Wesson 39 she might have been around for the sequels!




    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • I have 2 1006 and a 1046, picked up the 1006 on a trade back in 2000/2001 or so for next to nothing. My only 10mm I've kept around, and they are excellent. The RCMP up here use the 5946, so you see Smiths everywhere here in Canada. My 1st cousin is in the firearms unit at Depot/Division F (RCMP Western HQ and their national training center for new recruits), and works with Smith a lot as he issues every officer in the force their first duty weapon, as well as doing armorer and some range training. Not a fan of the DAO 59 either Lazs, which is what the standard issue is up here for the RCMP. Awful trigger, but otherwise an excellent, metal framed, reliable weapon.


    The rates of failure, particularly catastrophic failures surrounding the frames/slide, are way, way lower than the various polymer .40 cal handguns used by city/Provincial police forces in Canada. Alberta Sheriffs chose the 10mm Glock, and they're already regretting that due to the much shorter service life with those calibers in Glock than their 9mm variants.


    A saw that Vid too Gscholz, interesting, I like it. Very low bore axis too. Posted stuff about my HK P7s lots here, fixed barrel accuracy/advantage, for such a small pistol - groups I've gotten off sandbags at 25m are excellent, the only issue with the P7s IMO is they get incredibly hot due to the gas system, running one on a course or for any type of condensed time shooting drills is impossible without gloves as you'll get burned to shit with it. I'd like to spend some time shooting the Alien, particularly to see how much better/faster target sight picture acquisition is with the dot sights.

  • A saw that Vid too Gscholz, interesting, I like it. Very low bore axis too. Posted stuff about my HK P7s lots here, fixed barrel accuracy/advantage, for such a small pistol - groups I've gotten off sandbags at 25m are excellent, the only issue with the P7s IMO is they get incredibly hot due to the gas system, running one on a course or for any type of condensed time shooting drills is impossible without gloves as you'll get burned to shit with it. I'd like to spend some time shooting the Alien, particularly to see how much better/faster target sight picture acquisition is with the dot sights.


    I noticed they put the gas-delay system above the barrel on the Alien, unlike on the P7/13 where it is just above and in front of the trigger. The first 500 Alien pistols are the $5000 signature models. We'll see what they sell for after that.

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • I carry the 411 which is the econo4006

    I remember that, you posted pics of it once here didn't you? I know you're a BHP user too right, I posted pics of my Novak modded BHP here too once I think. Your 411 have a magazine disconnect?


    That's a really good .40 handgun Storch still IMO - I know .40 has a lot of detractors for various reasons, some valid, but IMO most of the negativity around 40 cal is that a huge majority of 40 cal handguns out there, especially initially, were polymer framed units. The Glock 22/27/etc were really just 9mm pistols in terms of their design, with .40 stuffed into them. Hence the massive rise in discombubliations with them, and where a lot of the .40 cal criticisms started. Whole other topic, I only have a couple .40 myself, G22 for training clients in the past that all ran the G22.


    Metal frame .40 cal = much more good to go IMO than polymer framed options. If your 411 trigger is anything like my 1006s, it's a great DA/SA trigger, the SA in particular is excellent - better than stock 226/229s out of the box I think.

  • I noticed they put the gas-delay system above the barrel on the Alien, unlike on the P7/13 where it is just above and in front of the trigger. The first 500 Alien pistols are the $5000 signature models. We'll see what they sell for after that.

    I see that going back and looking at the vid again, you're right, and now I wonder what kind of effect/improvement that is over the HK/P7 design in terms of heat dissipation and control, as it's a real problem with the P7/P13. Of course the P7 was designed and used in an era where doing a pile of rapid fire shooting/training just wasn't a regular thing except for a very, very small number of units and training schools/companies.


    Today the Alien and any other handgun with a similar gas operating system, really need to have that problem worked out. With the "Alien", especially IF they do go into mass production with a cheaper variant of their current five thousand dollar hand fitted handgun, it'll have to pass muster on this, and few shooters wear gloves while training/shooting, especially civilians who make up the largest part of their potential market.

  • Yup mag disconnect intact. I like the .40sw.....again.


    Still have the HP-35 and the CZ-75B


    been toting the .40 for a few months now.


    I like the winchester pdx 165. Hits a ton stays in a pig chest fully blossomed.

  • LOl Gman... you are infinetly more up on semi autos than I am. even storch... I can't even get the models right.... But I do want to buy an old P7... the one I shot was amazing. Whatever Smith that was a late stainless version of the 59 was also a great gun.


    To worry about bore axis on a 9mm to me is.. well... a complex solution to a nonexistent problem. Having said that.... later calibers like the .40 or even the way better .357 sig would all benefit from such a system... for me? the old Browning system works.. That rock and roll can be used to advantage just like a SAA can be cocked cause the gun rolls in your hand... most will not get that tho.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • $5K for a fucking pistol???

    Backyard Commandos INC, HMFIC


    I disagree but I respect your right to be stupid.


    Winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners.


    It's hard for liberals with mental disorders to think that other people don't also have the same mental disorders. - Danneskjold 2018

  • For $5K it better do more than just shoot.

    Backyard Commandos INC, HMFIC


    I disagree but I respect your right to be stupid.


    Winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners.


    It's hard for liberals with mental disorders to think that other people don't also have the same mental disorders. - Danneskjold 2018

  • $5k for a combat pistol is nutty, but the Alien isn't that IMO, it's essentially a production class pistol that through innovative new tech and tolerances/hand fitting/etc, will appeal to those who are involved in shooting sports. Those first 500 will all be sold out, maybe even already are, just due to the design lots of collectors and shooters will want it, and then there is the shooting sports people who will also want it, as $5k for them is pretty much the cost of any space pistol with all the mags/gear required anyway.


    Innovation is essential in small arms, but as was already said, nothing has really come around to climb up the next step since Browning. Sure there have been little things here and there, but essentially the tech in small arms has been stagnant for much longer in our lifetimes than that of those who came before us, right back to 200 years ago or so. Going from a Brown Bess smooth bore musket equipping the best armies of the world back then, with officers having single shot pistols - then jump 100 years to WW1. Huge leap. However However from WW1/Browning time to now - not nearly so much.


    The Alien design is a good one, and is a small step forward, however that said I don't think having a handgun with such tight tolerances and hand fitting assembly and construction will ever fly with the military, which is the driving force and $ behind small arms progress/tech, much more than the civilian market, IMO. Put the Alien through a sand/water test, or even just wade through a stream with it in your holster - I don't think it'll be as reliable as current handguns in common use then. It's a great handgun for shooting sports and flat range plinking I'd imagine, and again, I like the innovation, but that innovation very possibly won't fly when you put it through military standard testing once you get to the reliability/sand/water/etc testing. Their website does state that it has "military grade construction", and that is probably the case, but that doesn't mean it'll pass military testing. Plus there still is the question of how hot it gets when you pump 10 or 15 mags through it in rapid succession, even for just shooting sports. Perhaps they licked that issue too, but it's test I'd like to see from one of the gun channel people, again, even just for shooting sport purposes.


    I'd like to shoot one for a bit though, and if the next run of "regular" Aliens is more reasonable and justifiable, I'll grab one. Edit - the Canadian distributor says the 500 initial Aliens are all sold out already for the ones Laugo allotted up here, the US website still says they are in stock though...

  • I like putting holes in targets but not THAT much. I suppose if I shot competitively I could justify the expense.

    Backyard Commandos INC, HMFIC


    I disagree but I respect your right to be stupid.


    Winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners.


    It's hard for liberals with mental disorders to think that other people don't also have the same mental disorders. - Danneskjold 2018

  • The $5000 is for a signed signature model, one of 500. Plus the red dot and an additional rail, Kydex holster, three mags and, a flared magwell, and a cleaning kit and carry bag. The red dot rail alone is prolly like $1000.


    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."