30 years ago today...

  • I've ridden with a few those who were once "outlaws" and gotten to know them, none were proud of it. But knowing someone who has done something is far from doing it yourself and there just isn't that much to being an outlaw biker. It's a lot harder to be responsible and take care of others but I don't resent those who have taken the easier path.

  • TBH most of the time I was stoned. (OK, kidding.) Anyway what I'm saying is why do I get free health care for life? Damn near fifty years ago- will be in a few months, and the guys today are more professional and dedicated but I'm grandfathered in and they all have co pays. I don't rate it man- they even give me Viagra. The system is jacked.

    We had an incident once where we lost four crew members during a routine operation and it was due to on onboard fire and explosion, and the moral of the story was the military is a war making machine... on war making machines there's accidents and people lose their lives. I'm not better than anybody nor done more- if you served you risked it all, peace time or not. I'm just saying I don't live there any more but if anybody says there's not resources available to us they're full of shit, but- somewhere there's a buck to be made to rep a vet.

  • And.. in 1969 there were few who had the balls to do what I did.., not bragging.., look it up.


    It was very brave of you to refuse to put yourself in harms way. You're a fucking hero.

    “The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.” -- Ayn Rand

  • Not in Muskogee it wasn’t.

    Backyard Commandos INC, HMFIC

    I disagree but I respect your right to be stupid.

    Winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners.

    It's hard for liberals with mental disorders to think that other people don't also have the same mental disorders. - Danneskjold 2018

  • No.. you do not. I know more people who have served than you know outlaw bikers. In fact? I bet I know more of both,

    I think he does know more about serving Lazs.

    My dad was a Navy Frogman (UDT) in the last days of WW2.

    UDTs were the forerunner of the Seal teams. I lived with this man for the first 2 decades of my life. Do I know what it takes to be a Navy Seal? Nope.

  • Holden I doubt that mandatory service would be mandatory service as a seal. nobody but another seal understands that I would suspect. My point is that most 'service' ends up being some boring ass job with idiots telling you what to do for the most part.

    Yes... a large percent of current military use all the resources to learn something but not all and... they volunteered.... if mandatory? you would get a huge percent who would just put in their time. They would make a hell of a tight bed in the morning tho...

    Those people who burned their draft cards? it was a joke. most went the next week and told the board they lost theirs. Those who did not do that backed the fuck down when the FBI showed up at the house.

    What is ironic to me is all of you who claim there is no way I can know about service but claim you know all about resisting the draft.

    I am no hero.... I was scared to death whenever they threatened me. I got all the way to where you are sworn in and refused to raise my hand or swear in.

    Yeah... I was afraid and used every trick in the book (I had injuries) to get out... to get em to leave me alone. but eventually they got me cornered and I had to take a stand. Not easy when you are 19 and in your underwear with armed MP's all around.

    They took the easy way out for them and me. They decided that I was too crazy to go kill little yellow bastards for em.


    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."

    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • Mandatory service is completely reprehensible.... it is an extreme solution to a problem that created more problems than it solves.

    Vouchers are freedom... they are a free persons solution to a very real problem. They solve the problem without creating a bunch of new problems.... aaaaaand.......they are a solution that may even happen.


    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."

    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • I was not as brave as him.... I did every trick in the book and only actually refused when it got to the end.

    I was also not a war protester. I thought the war was stupid and wasteful but I didn't give a shit. I was against the draft.

    I am talking to the walls here tho... none of you ever had to face the draft.


    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."

    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • Holden I doubt that mandatory service would be mandatory service as a seal.

    10 million men were drafted into service for ww2. Dad joined, but many of the men on Omaha were draftees.

    I can never grasp the service these men gave us. Without being there, I think no one can.

    Even if you are a cook or a truck mechanic at a training base, you are doing something, and having that experience is something I did not have.

    If you are not a mechanical engineer at a power plant, you can not fully understand my experience. That's just the way it is. You can maybe imagine what you might think it is, but only someone who does this job can understand what it really is.

  • I had this discussion with Toad and it made him really mad. The 'draft' was different then. in fact... it was all there was. they started just accepting volunteers. they were flooded with people waiting in lines.

    Soooo.. they went to an all draft system. YOU COULD NOT volunteer. They did not draft people because they could not get enough people to join. They did it to be more organized and cut the clutter.

    People would weep when they couldn't get in. There were of course a few who did not want to go but very few... we were attacked and Germany declared war on us.


    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."

    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • When exactly are you referring to? I don't recall a time ever when someone could not enlist voluntarily?

  • Show me where you could volunteer after 42.. show me we had trouble filling a military force in WW2 many were turned away and told to wait their turn.

    There was no shortage of volunteers in WW2 prove me wrong.


    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."

    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

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