Ak vs m16..

  • He is like a world champion shot. he has the medals to prove it. I think his vids are about as fair and balanced as I have seen.


    Plus................................he has................the meat target...


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • In a military firearm I'd take penetration over damage/"stopping power" every time. In a personal or home defense gun I'd take "stopping power" over penetration.

    “The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.” -- Ayn Rand

  • I would basically agree but in the vid the penetration was not all that much different against common things you might use one for home defense for.


    he was pretty fair I think... generally he is in his vids. The AK penetrated a bit more but was a bit less accurate... neither of those things were a big deal tho. The AR did quite a bit more damage tho.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • I wouldn't use an AK or AR for home defense unless I lived out in the wilderness somewhere. A shotgun and handgun would be my choice. No need to shoot up the whole neighborhood.

    “The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.” -- Ayn Rand

  • Built a 16" with the idea that wife could easily wield it (we live WAY out in the sticks) she of course, refuses to shoot it, relying on her Sig. Fuck, I could have built a .308

    If politicians only got paid according to their district's economic success, there would be no more Democrats.

  • I would not use the AR or AK for my home. I keep a 12 gauge pump and a revolver close at hand tho.


    Generally speaking tho... if you only fired a few rounds from say an AR... it would be extremely unlucky if the bullet hit a bystander.


    Like living on the edge of a golf course... you find balls in your yard all the time but it is rare they ever hit anyone or even break something


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • I wouldn't use an AK or AR for home defense unless I lived out in the wilderness somewhere. A shotgun and handgun would be my choice. No need to shoot up the whole neighborhood.

    556 out of pretty much any AR barrel length won't necessarily over-penetrate in an urban environment.


  • Yeah... I have seen that one Gman. depending on what you hit in the house is how much it will penetrate. Major appliances pretty much stop most 5.56 rounds as do several studs/plates with sheetrock on both sides. Studs are 16" on center with fireblocks random. if you go through two or so walls it is pretty certain you will hit at least one 3 1/2" thick stud or plate or fireblock.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • Since when is two walls not over penetration?

    9mm and shotgun rounds including birdshot will go through more than two walls as well. Didn't you argue here or on the old board (I'll have to search and find it) that 9mm penetrates a lot more than people think? I specifically remember this because I posted and agreed, as we were testing 9mm suppressed Sterling SMGs compared to suppressors we were selling for newer 9mm carbine/subs, and showing how even subsonic 9mm could blast right through thick trees that 556 would often fragment inside and not go through.


    My school specifically taught CQB techniques using 9mm handguns that were designed to target threats through walls, sometimes more than one - there are techniques which use higher percentage places on walls to shoot that will get get hits vs threats using walls - sometimes multiple walls - for concealment (not cover obviously).


    Using any firearm in an environment where there are potential non-threats in the background is dangerous, and there is a good argument that a rifle will give higher percentage hits on target and throw fewer rounds off target, and thus be a "safer" weapon to use in said environments. I'm not saying I buy into that 100%, or even 50%, but there is something to be said for that.


    edit for quote -

    Quote

    9mm ball (FMJ) is notorious for over-penetration. Line up three (fit) guys dick to ass... Unless you hit bone chances are the round will stop in the third guy. And that's the problem with the 9mm. It's a narrow cross section fast bullet that dumps less than half its energy going through a typical human body. Expanding bullets can more than double the terminal effectiveness of the 9mm. So 9mm FMJ is a poor choice for a self-defense gun, but for the military it is much better though... Longer ranges, targets behind cover and wearing lots of gear etc.

    Until an expanding 9mm round hits liquid/tissue, most of the matter it passes through fill up the expansion cavity in the bullet and they just become mostly FMJ rounds anyway, especially thick clothing (in cold weather climates its a major issue for HP handgun rounds), and also barrier materials like walls/drywall/wood/etc. Anyway, point being that handgun caliber rounds aren't necessarily that much better of a solution over 556 rifle rounds in an urban environment, as the velocity and bullet composition and type for most 556 rounds means its more likely the bullets will fragment in dwelling material (eventually), while lower velocity 9mm/handgun ammunition will not, and thus penetrate nearly as much of that as a rifle round will, with less potential accuracy as well.


    It's a bit of a coin flip, because I do agree that rounds that go outside without hitting much of a barrier (open door/window, or even just glass), that a rifle round will carry further and have more lethality in it than an errant pistol round.

  • Yes the 9mm is an excellent military round for its ability to penetrate barriers. I would be very careful if I were to use a 9mm in a home unless I had frangible ammo, which is an option. You could do that with the AR too I guess... Bird shot might go through one drywall, but nothing more.



    “The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.” -- Ayn Rand

  • Newly created posts will remain inaccessible for others until approved by a moderator.

    The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.