New games/DCS thread/forum

  • I have no idea what you're on about. The 109K-4 flew operationally in October 1944. The 47N never saw service in Europe and the M barely managed to squeeze in a few sorties before Hitler offed himself. Maybe the 47N will show up if they ever decide to make a Pac/FE map and some Jap planes...


    The 109K-4 flew out the factory door and saw combat. The P-47M, the P-47N, and the F4U-4 flew out the factory doors and saw Jerry free skies. It took them many months for those planes to get to Germany and Japan to fight. It's not the jug and corsair's fault the Germans and Japs got their shit kicked in.



    But YOU set the standard. Production and operational by the end of 1944.

  • I'm not setting any "standard"... Just correcting your numerous errors and misconceptions. Only Eagle Dynamics can set the "standard" and they clearly have done so.


    Go whine about it to them, not me.

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • <LOTS of D's>

    P-47D / P-47G and XP-47K / XP-47L[edit]

    220px-P-47D_%22razorback%22_Thunderbolt.jpg
    Republic P-47D Thunderbolt.

    Refinements of the Thunderbolt continued, leading to the P-47D, which was the most produced version with 12,558 built. The "D" model actually consisted of a series of evolving production blocks, the last of which were visibly different from the first.

    The first P-47Ds were actually the same as P-47Cs. Republic could not produce Thunderbolts fast enough at its Farmingdale plant on Long Island, so a new plant was built at Evansville, Indiana. The Evansville plant first built a total of 110 P-47D-1-RAs, which were completely identical to P-47C-2s. Farmingdale aircraft were identified by the -RE suffix after the block number, while Evansville aircraft were given the -RA suffix.

    The P-47D-1 through P-47D-6, the P-47D-10, and the P-47D-11 successively incorporated changes such as the addition of more engine cooling flaps around the back of the cowl to reduce the engine overheating problems that had been seen in the field. Engines and engine subsystems saw refinement, (the P-47D-10 introduced the R-2800-63, replacing the R-2800-21 seen in previous P-47s) as did the fuel, oil and hydraulic systems. Additional armor protection was also added for the pilot.

    The P-47D-15 was produced in response to requests by combat units for increased range. "Wet" (equipped with fuel plumbing) underwing pylons were introduced to allow a bomb or drop tank pressurized by vented exhaust air to be carried under each wing, in addition to the belly tank. Seven different auxiliary tanks were fitted to the Thunderbolt during its career:

    • 200 U.S. gallon (758 l) ferry tank: A conformal tub-shaped jettisonable tank made of paper, which barely cleared the ground on grass airfields, was used as an interim measure between 30 July and 31 August 1943.
    • 75 U.S. gallon(284 l) drop tank: A standardized, all-metal teardrop-shaped steel tank with a prominent protruding horizontal seam, initially produced for the P-39 Airacobra, was adapted to the P-47 beginning 31 August 1943. It was initially carried on the belly shackle, but was used in pairs in 1944 as underwing tanks, and adopted as a standard accessory in the US inventory.
    • 108 U.S. gallon (409 l) drop tank: A cylindrical paper tank of British design and manufacture, used as a belly tank beginning in September 1943 and a wing tank in April 1944.
    • 150 U.S. gallon (568 l) drop tank: A steel tank first used as a belly tank 20 February 1944, and an underwing tank 22 May 1944.
    • 215 U.S. gallon (810 l) drop tank: A wide, flat steel tank developed by VIII Service Command was first used in February 1945.
    • 165 U.S. gallon (625 l) drop tank: This tank, produced by Lockheed, could be used either as a fuel tank or as a napalm container.
    • 110 U.S. gallon (416 l) drop tank: This tank was similar in shape to the 75 gallon drop tank, but was larger. It could also be used as a napalm container.

    220px-Republic_P-47D-22-RE_Thunderbolt_%28sn_42-25969%29.jpg
    P-47D-22-RE 42-25969

    8th AF / 361st FG / 376th FG

    flown by Capt. John D. Duncan.

    The tanks made of plastic-impregnated (laminated) paper could not store fuel for an extended period of time, but they worked quite well for the time it took to fly a single mission. These tanks were cheaper, lighter, and were useless to the enemy if recovered after being dropped—not only did they break apart, but they did not provide the enemy with any reusable materials that could be scavenged for their own war effort. With the increased fuel capacity, the P-47 was now able to perform escort missions deep into enemy territory. A drawback to their use was that fighters could not land with the tanks in place because of the hazard of rupture and explosion. Fighters recalled from a mission or that did not jettison their paper tanks for some reason were required to drop them into a designated "dump" area at their respective fields, resulting in substantial losses of aviation fuel.

    The P-47D-16, D-20, D-22 and D-23 were similar to the P-47D-15 with minor improvements in the fuel system, engine subsystems, (the P-47D-20 introduced the R-2800-59 engine) a jettisonable canopy, and a bulletproof windshield. Beginning with the block 22 aircraft, the original narrow-chorded Curtiss propeller was replaced by propellers with larger blades, the Evansville plant switching to a new Curtiss propeller with a diameter of 13 ft (3.96 m) and the Long Island plant using a Hamilton Standard propeller with a diameter of 13 ft 2 in (4.01 m). With the bigger propellers having barely 6 in (152 mm) of ground clearance, Thunderbolt pilots had to learn to be careful on takeoffs to keep the tail down until they obtained adequate ground clearance, and on landings to flare the aircraft properly. Failure to do so damaged both the propeller and the runway. A modification to the main gear legs was installed to extend the legs via an electric motor (un-extending before retraction) to accommodate the larger propeller diameter.

    220px-P47brazil.jpg
    Brazilian P-47 after impact with chimney; the pilot managed to land safely

    Even with two Republic plants rolling out the P-47, the U.S. Army Air Forces still were not getting as many Thunderbolts as they wanted. Consequently, an arrangement was made with Curtiss to build the aircraft under license in a plant in Buffalo, New York. The Curtiss plant experienced serious problems and delays in producing Thunderbolts, and the 354 Curtiss-built fighters were relegated to stateside advanced flight training. The Curtiss aircraft were all designated P-47G, and a "-CU" suffix was used to distinguish them from other production. The first P-47G was completely identical to the P-47C, the P-47G-1 was identical to the P-47C-1, while the following P-47G-5, P-47G-10, and P-47G-15 sub-variants were comparable to the P-47D-1, P-47D-5 and P-47D-10 respectively. Two P-47G-15s were built with the cockpit extended forward to just before the leading edge of the wing to provide tandem seating, designated TP-47G, essentially to provide a trainer variant. The second crew position was accommodated by substituting a much smaller main fuel tank. The "Doublebolt" did not go into production but similar modifications were made in the field to older P-47s, which were then used as squadron "hacks" (miscellaneous utility aircraft).


    Bubbletop P-47s[edit]

    220px-Republic_XP-47K.jpg
    Republic XP-47K (42-8702)

    All the P-47s produced to this point had a "razorback" canopy configuration with a tall fuselage spine behind the pilot, which resulted in poor visibility to the rear. The British also had this problem with their fighter aircraft, and had devised the bulged "Malcolm hood" canopy for the Spitfire as an initial solution. This type of canopy was fitted in the field to many North American P-51 Mustangs, and to a handful of P-47Ds. However, the British then came up with a much better solution, devising an all-round vision "bubble canopy" for the Hawker Typhoon. USAAF officials liked the bubble canopy, and quickly adapted it to American fighters, including the P-51 and the Thunderbolt. The first P-47 with a bubble canopy was a modified P-47D-5 completed in the summer of 1943 and redesignated XP-47K. Another older P-47D was modified to provide an internal fuel capacity of 370 U.S. gal (1,402 l) and given the designation XP-47L. The bubble canopy and increased fuel capacity were then rolled into production together, resulting in the block 25 P-47D (rather than a new variant designation). First deliveries of the P-47D-25 to combat groups began in May 1944.

    It was followed by similar bubble-top variants, including the P-47D-26, D-27, D-28 and D-30. Improvements added in this series included engine refinements and the addition of dive recovery flaps. Cutting down the rear fuselage to accommodate the bubble canopy produced yaw instability, and the P-47D-40 introduced a vertical stabilizer extension in the form of a fin running from the vertical stabilizer to just behind the radio aerial. The fin fillet was often retrofitted in the field to earlier P-47D bubble-top variants. The P-47D-40 also featured provisions for 10 "zero length" launchers for 5 in (127 mm) High velocity aircraft rockets (HVARs), as well as the new K-14 computing gunsight. This was a license-built copy of the British Ferranti GGS Mark IID computing gyroscopic sight which allowed the pilot to dial in target wingspan and range, and would then move the gunsight reticle to compensate for the required deflection.

    The bubbletop P-47s were nicknamed "Superbolts" by combat pilots in the field.

    220px-Republic_XP-47H.jpg
    XP-47H


    XP-47H / XP-47J[edit]

    Republic made several attempts to further improve the P-47D:

    Two XP-47Hs were converted. They were major reworkings of existing razorback P-47Ds to accommodate a Chrysler IV-2220-11 liquid-cooled 16-cylinder inverted vee engine. The plane reached 490 mph in level flight, but, with the end of the war, it never saw production.[better source needed]

    220px-Republic_XP-47J_three-quarter_front_view.jpg
    XP-47J

    The XP-47J began as a November 1942 request to Republic for a high-performance version of the Thunderbolt using a lighter airframe and an uprated engine with water injection and fan cooling. Kartveli designed a completely new aircraft fitted with a tight-cowled Pratt & Whitney R-2800-57 with a war emergency rating of 2,800 hp (2,090 kW), reduced armament of six 0.50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns, a new and lighter wing, and many other changes. The only XP-47J was first flown in late November 1943 by Republic test pilot Mike Ritchie. Less than a year later it flew into the aviation history books marking a new milestone for speed.[page needed]

    When fitted with a GE CH-5 turbosupercharger, the XP-47J achieved a top speed of 505 mph (440 kn, 813 km/h) in level flight on August 4, 1944 at 34,500 feet over a course in Farmingdale, New York, piloted by Mike Ritchie. Ritchie's achievement was not exceeded until August 21, 1989, when Lyle Shelton piloted Rare Bear, a highly modified Grumman F8F Bearcat using the rival, near-55 litre displacement Wright Duplex-Cyclone radial engine from the same era (1937) as the Double Wasp, and set a new official FAI record at 523.586 mph.

  • "The bubble canopy and increased fuel capacity were then rolled into production together, resulting in the block 25 P-47D (rather than a new variant designation). First deliveries of the P-47D-25 to combat groups began in May 1944."


    And that's the version they're modeling. Makes perfect sense considering they have a Normandy map and that the game is primarily about historical scenarios and campaigns. The P-47M of which less than 200 were made and only saw very limited service in the closing weeks of the war in Europe makes no sense in DCS. That said we would need earlier 109s and 190s too...


    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • Just pointing out the shitty planning of ED. Were they thinking ahead (which they seem to have a pathological incapability to do so), they'd have picked the BF-109G-6 and / or the G-14. Were they capable of adapting to their shitty planning, they'd give the Thunderbolt, Mustang and Spitfire access to 150 octane fuel that they had in facing these 1944 planes in 1944.


    The problem extends past the WW2 theater, as well. But at least there is some parity. The Mig-21 is lacking a decent counterpart of the F-4 Phantom or the F-8 Crusader, but both are coming (several years after the Mig-21). But it can sort of match up against the F-5. Still, we'll be getting the Mig-19, and no F-100.


    "The bubble canopy and increased fuel capacity were then rolled into production together, resulting in the block 25 P-47D (rather than a new variant designation). First deliveries of the P-47D-25 to combat groups began in May 1944."


    And that's the version they're modeling. Makes perfect sense considering they have a Normandy map and that the game is primarily about historical scenarios and campaigns. The P-47M of which less than 200 were made and only saw very limited service in the closing weeks of the war in Europe makes no sense in DCS. That said we would need earlier 109s and 190s too...



    It's performance that matters. If a new Technical Order is issued to replace a faulty oil line of a F-51 in Korea, it doesn't make it a 1952 plane.

  • Yeah I think using the word "planning" at all is a bit generous... That said, DCS has always been a single player or co-op multiplayer vs AI sim primarily. The MiG-21's adversaries are in the game as AI planes, just not flyable. The MiG-21 is also not an Eagle Dynamics product but a third-party module, so it's complicated. The P-51D and 190D came out before there was any WWII map available, so that's just where they started. More of a curiosity at first I guess, but one that grew into the idea of a WWII era DCS time frame as interest grew in the player base.

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    The post was edited 1 time, last by GScholz ().

  • Giving the Pony 100/150 fuel would perhaps be historically accurate in a late-1944 and 1945 time frame, but it would not be accurate for earlier in 1944 when the Pony did most of its work destroying the Luftwaffe. Also back in the day the Dora and K-4 were basically added to give the Pony worthy adversaries. Against a 100/150 fueled Pony Dora and Kurfurst would no longer be worthy opponents. Early-mid-1944 Pony vs late-1944 109 and 190 might not be historically accurate, but balances well. Otherwise you'd have to give the 109K and 190D C3 fuel to make them competitive again...

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • Quote

    Just pointing out the shitty planning of ED.

    Quote

    It even goes to the russian inability to admit fault

    Hah, glad to see others (Gscholz too) feel the same way. Don't dare breath a word of that on their forums though, they make Skuzzy look like Sally. ED banned people from their forum over comments they made on Reddit ffs. There are many positives to ED/DCS, but the lack of a well thought out flow chart of development, the way they constantly refuse to finish modules while pumping out new "early access" units, and as pointed out their beyond-HTC levels of being unable to accept any criticism at all (and that's saying something), are things that get pretty annoying sometimes. IMO it shows the strength of their products, that they are successful in spite of all of this...

  • More JF17 update vids - some anti ship missile stuff, really cool man in the loop variant too. ED is working on some man in the loop weapons for the Hornet right now, I hope they can get that code figured out platform wide, as it'll make future weapons development better and faster (hopefully). There is a new F16 video out in Matt Wagner's series of pre release training vids as well.



  • I have the F-5E now. I'm finishing my stick setup and I'll probably take it for a spin before I watch any more videos on it. Prolly crash and burn....heh...good times ahead!


    I'll get the F-16C and a few others when they are on sale at Christmas time, including the F-16 and F-14. Those are at the top of my list right now.

  • Take it on the run, baby.

    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. — C.S. Lewis

    :this