Let the WAR begin! (MUHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAaaaaa) glock vs 1911

  • The best kind when it comes to obsolete WWII relics. Spend your money on better stuff. Like Glocks...

    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. —Ayn Rand

  • Wow, I have that same Acog too, when the Ontario OPP police wanted a new patrol carbine, we submitted a mid length Sig PE90 rifle with a custom folding/scoping stock we designed for it, and that same small Acog is the one they wanted on it. We lost to Colt Canada, but I kept the optic and rifle, minus the F/A parts group of course, that'd be unlawful. I have a couple NSN Acogs and a larger 762 caliber one too, 4 total, but have used the Leupold CQB as my primary carbine scope for a while.


    You see many FR8's there in Norway? It's my favorite surplus rifle, SO many good things about it, short like your little sbr bolt action rifle there, very short in fact. HK style diopter sights (this is because Spain used the CETME with the same sights and this was a training rifle for that), takes NATO 762 stripper clips, a bayonet still, and has great sling point attachment locations. Best truck rifle ever for this country, as it looks very regular, and non threatening, should you ever get stopped, or worse yet have to use it.

  • Did Colt beat you on anything other than price and/or 'connections'?


    I'm sorry to say that I haven't seen a single FR8 here. Surplus guns are rare here with the exception of the M98, which can be found everywhere. I know one gun dealer here who got his hands on a batch of 14,000 of them. There's probably two hundred thousand of them in civilian use here, and most have been rebuilt to more practical hunting rifles (like mine). As an active service member at the time I got mine for little more than the paperwork fee. Civilians had to pay about $180 for one. Still that like one tenth the price of a new decent quality hunting rifle.


    A few have even made it over to your side of the pond.


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    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. —Ayn Rand

    Edited once, last by GScholz ().

  • I'd like one of those M98s, especially for that price, obviously they'd be expensive here now, the few that made it here. The Fr8s, I could buy them for 250$ with a fantastic bore, almost unfired a couple of them, now, they are 750 to 1000 up here due to their popularity. Glad I have both of mine.


    We lost the patrol rifle bid due to several factors, mostly cost, and the fact that Colt Canada was local to Ontario and builds probably one of the best factory/military issue M16/M4 derivatives in the world. However, that said, our rifle, in both lengths, the 8.9 552 and the 14.3" 551, was far more accurate, reliable, etc. It did use a cam/rollin magazine system similar to the AK, which meant more training/issues for police, as the controls/ergos on the M4 platform are better in this regard (IMO, theirs too). That said, it'd be easy to train around this, and again, their rifle had malfunctions in the trials, both of ours, not a single one. The PE90 is known to be probably the best main battle rifle made, in terms of quality, reliability, and accuracy, and of the thousands that passed through my hands I never saw a test target worse than 1 MOA at 300m with 10 rounds fired. Even the 552 9", I'd see some that were close to 1 MOA, usually no worse than 1.5 -2, which is nuts at that range for such a short barrel. When I started using a full length PE90/Swiss Arms rifle in Service rifle, they tried to ban it as I was pretty much unbeatable with it, mainly due to the gear advantage, I got 2nd with it at a Fort Lewis shoot, and was the top civilian that year using the factory Swiss 4x fixed optic and US issue 62 gr 556, that wasn't even the best round for that rifle.


    Our rifle would have cost 75% more, which is what killed it mostly. They did like it though, particularly the 14.3" accuracy and reliability, in any weather. It's really the best of the AK and AR mixed together with that long stroke piston, incredible build quality, excellent factory night sights, etc. The stock they wanted IMO wasn't necessary, the stock folder was fine, but they demanded a scoping stock, so we had to cook up this fitting to add an M4 stock on to the side folding rear end of the Sig rifles, and it worked really well actually, but added weight and complexity, and cost.


    Swiss Arms/Sig PE90 rifles are a dream to shoot, like the Mercedes Benz, or better yet Rolls Royce of the main battle rifle world. There is a reason people pay 3$k for them here, since 2001 when we brought in the first ones, they cost never went down, in fact they are now worth even more what with the government issues that came up a couple years back. Still, the M4 is cheaper, better ergos (in some ways), and does the job still for much less cost, and Colt/Diemaco Canada makes a really good one for the OPP.

  • 75% is... A lot. Guess that's why no large force buys "the best" equipment available. Just the "this will do".

    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. —Ayn Rand

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    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. —Ayn Rand

  • Wilson combat is a great company.. all of their stuff is first rate. So they have fixed almost everything on a glock that is fucked up from the factory except.................................the grip angle. The grip angle is non negotiable to me. I have been hip shooting and point shooting all my life. I refuse to own a gun that does not point well.... notice the guy in the vid ALWAYS brought the gun to eye level for the sights and... indeed... has his own sights.


    Nothing wrong with that. many people have never learned to shoot from the hip or point shoot. it is not easy. it takes a lot to learn. think.... double the rounds it takes to get good being fast using the sights. I am talking.... 5-10k rounds easy? for some they will never get it. Some get it quickly.. Wild Bill Hickock fired at least 12 rounds a day hip and point shooting. Doesn't seem like a lot till you add it up.


    I think what is happening is that the 1911 was never designed to work with the 9mm.... The 9mm is EXTREMELY popular with shooters these days... Wilson kinda gave up on it... for good reason.


    Competitors will agree tho.. if you want a good 9 mm gun that points well and has the best trigger in the world? get a 1911 in 38 super.. it feeds perfectly in the 1911 and is more potent than a 9mm.. it can get close to .357 mag. but.. it is a handloader only proposition to get the most out of it or to afford to shoot it.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • One explanation.. if you only shoot glocks.... if you practice point and hip shooting then you can get good at it. BUT.. you will suck when you switch to another gun. almost everyone uses the Colt/SW revolver grip angle or the 1911 angle. If you want to point shoot a glock your wrist will be at an unnatural angle. muscle memory will translate into you fucking it up when you switch.


    This is one reason I don't even shoot glocks even when offered.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • I can understand the grip angle difference and muscle memory problem. There are however many pistols that conform more to the Glock grip angle than the 1911. With about 10 million produced the Glock 17 is the most produced pistol in history. So most new pistol designs gravitate toward the Glock angle since the Glock is their primary competitor and current Glock users is their targeted market. The Steyr M-Series and the Walther P99 and PPQ are obvious examples. I've also wondered why people try to make 1911s in 9mm when Browning himself did that back in the '20s. It's called the Hi-Power; the last and ultimate version of Browning's pistol.

    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. —Ayn Rand

  • I beg to differ.. the guns you mention are a compromise grip angle... just cause there are more prius's sold than jags does not make the prius a better driver platform.


    Saint Browning did invent the 38 super which is a far superior round than the 9mm and functions perfectly in the 1911.


    I was lucky to have grown up in an era and a country where I could try numerous handguns.. not only try but shoot a LOT.. I may be a tad unusual even for an American of my group.. but I have fired countless rounds out of handguns. At all sorts of targets at all sorts of ranges. Yet.................every shooting session is new to me. This is gonna sound contradictory but I will shoot a luger but not a glock.


    Ok.. neither gun points well. one is plastic and blocky.. the other is a work of art... one feels great in the hand..the other feels like.. plastic. One is historic.. the other is merely popular.. like skinny jeans or soft rock. When I shoot a luger I shoot it like a High standard.. with respect and within it's limitations.. the glock? people who own em are too ignorant to know their limitations or............if they really do know.. don't care.


    lazs

    "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."



    Pancho Villa, last words (1877 - 1923)

  • I was pointing out that new pistols conform to the Glock more than the 1911 since you think "you will suck when you switch to another gun. almost everyone uses the Colt/SW revolver grip angle or the 1911 angle". That's just not true anymore. There are a lot of options with Glock-like grip angle out there.


    Like the Prius, the Glock drives innovation and trends not because it is the best gun, but because everyone uses it. It is cheap, easy to use (especially for inexperienced users) and gets the job done. It's like the AR and AK platforms; they're not the best intermediate cartridge auto rifles (or assault rifles) available, but they drive innovation and trend because everyone uses them and they're cheap, easy to use and gets the job done.


    The 1911 was the Glock of its time. Back when the Luger was a complicated hand fitted "work of art" the 1911 was a simple, mass producible gun. The cheap and "blocky" gun of its day. Also the Luger was designed to be a natural pointer and most competition target pistols have a similar grip angle.

    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. —Ayn Rand

  • Just a silly argument. Shotguns suck. Use a tank. Same difference.

    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. —Ayn Rand

  • I have to say, my Glock experience wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Then it has been many years since I had my 1911 and Browning HPs, so...

    Absinthe makes the tart grow fonder.


    Celebrating those happy times when the penis is an internal organ.

  • Just out of curiosity, who here currently owns a Glock? Lazsmonkey has been slinging shit memes for some time now and I’m wondering who he's aiming at. I thought we were all Sig/S&W/Springfield/Ruger Guys here.

    Backyard Commandos INC, HMFIC


    I disagree but I respect your right to be stupid.


    Winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners.


    It's hard for liberals with mental disorders to think that other people don't also have the same mental disorders. - Danneskjold 2018

  • I have a 17 (P80). Ex-army issue. Will probably have to sell it if I move out of the country next year.


    Yeah, so... Beat me up.

    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. —Ayn Rand

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