I don't care. Mostly leftists are aborted

Quote from Iron

Who knew she read this board?

https://www.foxnews.com/politi…al-movement-consciousness

Sotomayor compares fetus to brain dead person, says fetal movement doesn't prove consciousness

Consciousness isn't required for life, growth signifies life.

I can see lazs' point... or I think I can see it...

the left got things where they are by pretty much takin baby steps...

wanna reverse it... then use baby steps the other way???

and...

I understand his argument about lookin down the nose at some and sayin God requires/demands/etc...

lot of folks will resist right out the gate... especially atheist... hard!

and seem to recall the passage of a bill that allows the MSM to use propaganda/lies on us...

think bama got it passed and signed it IIRC???

they'll be all over it as well...

think that is what he is really tryin to say???

and I can see the sense of it...

so... the trump appointed justices askes some interesting questions.

If the court can mess with a woman's rights then it can also mess with your rights. That is, make you take the covid vaccine.

Quote from MiloMorai

If the court can mess with a woman's rights then it can also mess with your rights. That is, make you take the covid vaccine.

as has been pointed out... by at least 1 of the SCOTUS

where does it say in the Constitution/Bill of Rights that there is a right to abortion?

so it is not necessarily a women's rights issue... if the right never existed...

Quote from wrag

as has been pointed out... by at least 1 of the SCOTUS

where does it say in the Constitution/Bill of Rights that there is a right to abortion?

so it is not necessarily a women's rights issue... if the right never existed...

No one has found it yet.

Quote from Iron

Yes. I mock all gods fashioned to suit their supplicants.

I'm not ashamed of my God and I must acknowledge him.

“Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven."

Matthew 10:32-33

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Not sure how you can quote this verse from Mathew where Jesus is quite obviously a person separate from his father . . . and then follow it up later with "God . . . becoming Human."

Quote from Iron

Look, if it were enough for us just to try to do right then God would not have subjected himself to becoming human, enduring temptation, and suffering a brutal murder. I wish it hadn't been necessary. Accept or reject this, I wouldn't deny you the choice if I could. Ignorance of this though is not your option.

I suggest re-reading John 17:21-23 and ponder over what kind of Unity Jesus is praying to God about. He certainly isn't saying he and his Father are the same person.

/endhijack

Quote from Iron

Jesus said plainly that he and the father are one. And of course there is John 1:1.

ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

τὸν θεόν

vs.

θεὸς

"The God" with the definite article is, as far as I know, universally accepted to be referring to God, and is used in the place of God's personal name (Jehovah or Yahweh, depending on whether you would like to call the son Jesus or Yahshua. יהוה in Hebrew).

"God" without the definite article can be interpreted in several ways, including as a descriptor or title. It may or may not refer to "The God" himself. So One possible interpretation of the last phrase is that the "Word" was "Like God" or "Godlike".

Also of note, the word was "pros" "The God", or toward God. This implies proximity, but separate individuals, helping to clarify "God" in the last phrase being descriptive.

"But SWTarget, you're sure parsing words"

Not really. The Bible explains itself when taken in full context, which is why I suggested reviewing John 17:21-23 (mind you, same book, same writer, so there is no disagreement between opinions of different Bible writers)

So, Jesus is praying (if he is God in Human form, who is he praying to?)

" so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me."

So if being in union with his father means they are the same person, then Jesus praying that his apostles be in union with them would make not a Trinitarian God, but a God of multitudes. He would be praying that his apostles somehow literally meld into one being. This makes no logical sense.

Jesus says he received glory from God. If he is God, he doesn't receive it, but has it inherently. Jesus says the Father loves him. While everyone should love themselves, he is clearly not talking about loving himself, but being loved by another personage.

Or how about John (same writer again) 14:28:

"You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am."

If Jesus and God are one person, then logically one cannot be greater than the other. But Jesus says it plainly.

How about John (same writer!!) 20:17:

Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Jesus again clearly refers to returning to someone, not that he is that person. He furthermore refers to his apostles as his "brothers." So while the apostles may share a future princely reward in a heavenly kingdom, and thus share a measure of equality with Jesus, they certainly do not and are not equal to God himself.

Many other examples to point to that Jesus and God are clearly separate individuals, but it's late and I'm going to bed. I invite you to reflect on the full context. And don't misunderstand . . . recognizing Jesus' role as Messiah is clearly crucial to gaining everlasting life (John 17:3), so in no way is Jesus diminished by recognizing his status as being separate from God.

Very confusing.

Triune, not difficult to grasp.

Quote from Mr No Name

Triune, not difficult to grasp.

Apparently it is for some.