Let the WAR begin! (MUHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAaaaaa) glock vs 1911

  • Lugers were very reliable back when they were new and maintained properly. As they get older springs lose tension and parts wear out. A properly refurbished Luger is one of the most reliable and durable automatic pistols of the early 20th century.


    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • cuntalero... I grew up in the same times. In Arkansas every summer... as you can see from another thread my gramps was really really big on guns. I started at nine and was self taught.. much like all my heroes of the day. back in Northern rural California all my friends shot handguns at jackrabbits and gophers. We mostly used 22 pistols till I got older.. most of the things I learned about shooting handguns I learned from zillions of rounds of 22lr.


    Jordon came to our school one time at the behest of the boy scouts. Gman... I have no doubt you (or anyone else) could match him with a model 27/28 revolver... the guy was huge and he was on the stage in the cafeteria. he would hold an aspirin on the back of his right hand. draw and fire a wax bullet (there was a canvas drop in the background LOL) and hit the aspirin before it hit the ground.


    No matter what method of draw I ever adopted that guy would have got me. I read all the books by all the greats. they are still great today. They learned just like me... by trial and error. When I was 9 everyone shot pistols one handed with a hand on their hip. I shot with both hands with ... what is now a modified weaver stance.... cause... I could barely hold up the Colt SAA that gramps let me fire. or the 1911 he kept in a box on the porch. but... I found that using that method on the little High Standard 22 made for extreme accuracy.


    We learned to point shoot and hip shoot because we were competitive. A jack would dart out from a bush and cross our line. If you wanted to be the guy who got em.... well.... no time for that using the sights stuff.


    later from watching cowboy TV shows and such we hip shot at cans and bottles. These are skills that still serve me well just messing around with family or friends. .


    lazs

  • Gman... yep... I have always said that military and even police are not the same as what civilians need. in terms of training and weaponry... Granted... there is a huge crossover these days. Jordon was right about the magnum revolver and to this day I love a well tuned revolver or a J frame hideout. In Jordons day tho... the semi auto was not real dependable. The most dependable semi auto we knew of was worn out 1911's A heavily worn 1911 and ball ammo never fails.


    What a revolver did then it will still do today. Semi's have crossed over tho and are dependable for civilians.. but the .357 is still king.. the .357 sig follows that philosophy. Guys like Keith tho thought a 44 mag was perfect. Or a very hot 44 spl... My SAA 44 spl is a very compact and light gun that drives a 250 grain slug at from 800-1000 fps or more.. nothing on two or four legs can stand against that.


    The 45acp was simply an attempt to duplicate the ballistics of the 45 Colt which drove a 250 grain slug at around 900 fps.... close enough.. I just chroned some 240 grain HP rounds from my Smith.... 44 mag hot loads I rarely shoot... they were running right at 1500 fps .. kind of a waste but fun to let people who want to shoot a 'real' 44 mag but mostly I shoot 250 grain slugs at 1200 fps which is quite comfortable and I can get repeat shots off pretty well. Bowling pin matches were won with such a load. 5 guys? 5 bowling pins? what's the diff? I could even save a round to shoot the bowling pin out of cuntaleros hand.


    lazs

  • Saw a nice used 686 at the gun shop when we were getting rid of her offending Glock...she finally dragged me away from it

    In 2017, It's Okay To Do Whatever You Want To Nazis, And A 'Nazi' Is Anybody You Don't Like

  • Thing is several of us are old enough to have had someone pass the torch so to speak...


    too many of the following gens never even seen the match..


    and had the fear of firearms drummed into them by the education/indoctrination done in public schools

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer: “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”


    I gave up drinking, smoking, and sex, it was the most horrifying 20 minutes of my life!


    Your OLD when "Gettin Lucky" means you can find your keys.

  • wrag.. that was my fear for a long time... I got mad and I did something about it. Storch you old fuck... you are already doing something about it.


    us old guys have a lot of cumulative skills... in this case with firearms. I NEVER pass up an opportunity to teach new people young or old .. male or female. I have two people in line right now who want to go shooting that have never shot a gun in their life... one 18 year old boy and one 35 year old mom.


    the trick or secret or whatever is to make it SAFE but also.. to make it fun. I basically teach em how to keep the gun pointed in a safe direction and how to load and unload and how to hold it so there is no blood. I basically tell em to look a the front sight. We can get into the finer points of sights and hold and trigger and all that some other time.


    That girl I taught? so. we are at a BBQ... the little kids are all shooting cans with a bb rifle at my buddies place... I look over and the girl is showing the little kids how to line up the front and rear sights and how to hold the gun.... I heard her say "keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot"


    makes it all worth it. well... it is worth it in any case... you should try it wrag. I bet you would be good at it.


    lazs

  • I bought a Glock 17 a couple of years ago and find it an acceptable 9mm. I do like my Berreta .40 (94) better. When it comes to 1911s, my base model Springfield 1911 is a distant 3rd in .45 behind my XDM and Sig 220, at least in its stock configuration. My hands don't fit the grips right. I have big hands and the skinny long aspect of the 1911 makes it awkward. I also need an extended duckbill to pretect the flesh between my thumb and forefinger. I haven't been motivated enough to delve into the Kimber investment yet. They do look purdy, though.

  • mini.. I have really long hands.. or.. fingers but they are slim. I wear xlg gloves but only cause how long the fingers are. My 1911's have custom grips.. for people with big hands... the wooly mammoth grips are tops on my government model.. they are thick.. I have never had any slide bite my hands including even the PPK Walther that most people get bit by.


    Like I said tho.. I grew up a point shooter and the glock is hopeless for that. And.. to me at least.. a gun that won't point shoot is worthless as a defensive or fun gun. also.. glad you like the .40 but damn.. I just can't seem to get one to shoot for shit.


    lazs

  • Oh... I like the .40 better than my Glock 17... Not better than the .45s. The .45 is till my favorite automatic.

  • If you want a Kimber IMO try and find one manufactured prior to 2005 or so. My company had a real tight relationship with them, I was the Kimber pistol and rifle national distributor for Canada, and they built me whatever I wanted custom as well back then. Their QC was fantastic back then, out of the thousands of handguns and rifles of theirs I imported, it was one tenth of one percent that had any issues at all, truly a huge value for the $ compared to others back then. Back then the Smith 1911 barrel crowns literally looked like someone did them with a hacksaw, and Springfields were so crunchy that you would swear every model had sand and rocks in the slide/frame rails.


    What's happened is Kimber's quality slide, while everyone else improved. There are tons of makers like Baer, Wilson Combat, and Knighthawk that are factory/custom type deals that you can get a great 1911 for 2$k or more, but if you can find an early serial number Kimber of any variant, TLE, Gold Match/Combat, Super Match, whatever, that hasn't been shot out, it's often a great deal and way to go still. Even some new ones are great, it's just you need to really carefully check them all out before buying IMO. Kimber makes a great 9mm 1911 too, as much as I've been a 45/1911 shooter, my favorite 1911 I own is my 9mm Knighthawk with the bushingless barrel.


    I have large hands as well, but find the 1911 fits them OK, there are 5 major and 10 minor factors in the hand in terms of size and shape, so it depends on where and how your hands are large/small in terms of fit and comfort with various types of shapes. For me the 1911 is long/wide/narrow in all the right places, although if I haven't shot one for a while and have been training with 9mm double stack autos, the 1911 always feels like a pencil in my hands for a bit again.


    Good used Kimber if you're looking for a mid/higher end model, this is exactly what I'd go after and I've had several Super Matches, one made to my own specs that was more of a Super Combat with fixed sights instead of the adjustables.


    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/696808225


    This too:

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/696357822


    Or this for $1000, if he took $900 or 850 it'd be a great deal.


    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/694326238


    Kimber truly deserves a lot of credit, they are mostly responsible for bringing the 1911 "back", when they came out with their first line, it was just a few makes and other than the Colt Match models, there wasn't a lot of options other than really expensive custom guys. Seeing Kimber's huge success - I sold 200+retail handguns alone some months and 100s of wholesale just in piddly Canada alone - other makes jumped in, and progress and innovation went up, and cost came down. Kimber just grew so fast that their QA suffered in middle years because of it IMO. My very favorite bolt action rifle I own is a Kimber 22 250 for varmint shooting.

  • I've only shot about 50 rounds through one - it's an interesting design, there are benefits for the rotating barrel system, and since they've used better materials so the lugs which sheered so often on the 92 models in the past are now stronger, reliability and especially longevity should really, really spike up. The trigger I did find sort of odd, I know there are aftermarket mods for that though. The magazines were very tight, we only get 10 rounds up here, but the one I shot was a CBSA (border/customs guards) pistol with full up magazines, and he can't get the last 3 rounds in either of his 3 issue mags.


    Specifically about the rotating barrel design, it's supposed to eat up energy rotating instead of all of it being transferred back into your hand thus lowering recoil, also increasing accuracy due to being more linear and consistent, and mostly less muzzle flip that is just inherent to the design, not sure of the actual physics of it, but it's true from the few rounds I put through it, very straight and light push, almost all to the rear, very little flip up, at least in the smaller caliber.


    It has a pretty low bore axis, points well, very, very accurate with the barrel system and with a bit of experience with the trigger, or mods to it, has very fast follow up shot capability. A shooter I really respect who worked for Sig Saeur while i was there and was a sponsored shooter who won every IDPA title out there with a Sig 220, Ernest Langdon, shoots for Beretta now and swears by the PX4, says it's 5x better than the G19 in terms of accuracy and general shootability. I really like the dimensions, and the low bore axis points great for me when I shot it, off a bench at about 20m or so I was really impressed with a couple 5 shot groups strings I shot with it with duty issued ammo the CBSA used, he wouldn't let me run anything else through it as their armorer has cats if they do that.


    I think if it fits your hand, points well for you, and you like the ergos/etc, it's a great option everyone including me forgets about in the G19/etc/etc sized typical CCW/issue combat 9mm handgun discussion. I'd absolutely want to check the mags first or get new ones that will fill to capacity if I was looking at one though, be sure to check that as it's a common problem similar to the early Gen 1 large caliber 45/10mm Glocks back in the day.


    It has one of the same faults as the 92 series what with the safety position and function, very easy to accidentally engage it when doing a clearance drill or any slide manipulations, just something to be aware of. IIRC they were going to make a "decock" only version like the Beretta models Wilson Combat makes, that'd be what I'd get if it's available, for sure, who needs a safety with a DA/SA handgun anyway dammit.


  • Did took my grandsons shooting not long back... they had a great time!

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer: “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”


    I gave up drinking, smoking, and sex, it was the most horrifying 20 minutes of my life!


    Your OLD when "Gettin Lucky" means you can find your keys.

  • I bought a Glock 17 a couple of years ago and find it an acceptable 9mm. I do like my Berreta .40 (94) better. When it comes to 1911s, my base model Springfield 1911 is a distant 3rd in .45 behind my XDM and Sig 220, at least in its stock configuration. My hands don't fit the grips right. I have big hands and the skinny long aspect of the 1911 makes it awkward. I also need an extended duckbill to pretect the flesh between my thumb and forefinger. I haven't been motivated enough to delve into the Kimber investment yet. They do look purdy, though.


    replace the grips with wider versions and put a long... adjustable if ya can find one... trigger on it!


    may find it helps a lot... lazs seems to have done that with his 45's and those grips ya see on em...

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer: “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”


    I gave up drinking, smoking, and sex, it was the most horrifying 20 minutes of my life!


    Your OLD when "Gettin Lucky" means you can find your keys.

  • I've tried the thicker grips and found they didn't help much. I haven't used something that molds into the back and front rail very well. It always feels like I'm holding a piece of plywood in my hand for a grip. Of course, we can discuss changing to a grip more custom designed and so forth, but eventually most gun problems can be solved with changes and upgrades.

  • Have you tried the long trigger replacement?


    have small hands and have found that more often then not changing the trigger length allows me to shoot better...


    with a trigger too long for me I tend to pull or push the front sight just a tad but enough to spoil where I hit...


    a too short trigger may be doing something similar to you?

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer: “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”


    I gave up drinking, smoking, and sex, it was the most horrifying 20 minutes of my life!


    Your OLD when "Gettin Lucky" means you can find your keys.

  • Natural materials like stag or bone or ivory or even smooth (not checkered) wood always feel better in the hand... Stag will give a bit of texture if gripping is a problem... they don't get hot or 'grippy' like rubber or plastic .. I don't like finger grooves. Gman is right about hand shapes. Mine are narrow and long and I have never been bit by any slide while people with much smaller hands have.


    There is so far not a trigger on the planet that is 'long' enough for me. shooting a J frame my trigger finger will hit my thumb before I can get the trigger all the way back. To me... trigger finger placement is a non issue. I have learned to pull the trigger straight back no matter where on my finger the trigger is cause.... often I have no choice. A laser trainer will show you if your gun moves when using the trigger... in the old days we would put a dime on the rear sight.


    lazs